VP Debate

[Craig Smith]

I do not know about you guys but after watching the Debates last night I believe our Current VP Dick Cheney whipped up on young John Edwards.

[Jason (fight geek)]

I do think Cheney had the edge, not a KO, but he pulled out a close decision... but since this is a Presdential race, the more important question is Mr. Smth, where were you after the Presidential debate? That was a KO or a UD for Kerry.
Then again for the Republicans yesterday we did see their President.
It was nice seeing two intelligent articulate people debate.
If people are really interested in good debates read the Abe Lincoln and Stephen Douglass debates. Those guys were smart.
I want one of the candidates, (either) to just say..."this guy is dumb". I want to see some more trash talk, to see how the other responds.
jason

[Tom Jensen]

At the beginning of the debate, I was just sure Chenney was gonna get so cheesed off that he'd drop the "F-Bomb" right in the middle of it all. If he can do it on the Senate floor, why not here? But he calmed down & faired well, I thought. I thought it was close, but the edge when to Chenney.

[Randy Pogue]

Wow. I don't know what the hell I was watching last night. Was I watching a different debate? I guess I just saw exactly what I expected to see, which was Edwards relentlessly hammering Cheney on almost every point, leaving him often speechless or saying things like "I don't really know where to start." But, I suppose we can call that a victory for Cheney if you like, and start looking forward to an even stronger America in the 2nd term. You know stronger, right? Less allies, higher fuel prices, less money, less jobs, more debt for the government, higher healthcare costs, more dying kids to support big business...just plain STRONGER.

[Tom Jensen]

Randy:
I said it was close & Chenney edged out Edwards. But I didn't say I think he's good for the country or that I'll vote for Bush/Chenney. Personally, I think those two could turn this country in to what it once was... a frozen wasteland covered with ice :)

[DEAN LESSEI]

The vice president definitely won last nights debate. He was articulate and put Edwards in his place. I guess the fact that Senator "Gone", I mean John Edwards feels it is not important to be present on the senate floor for votes isn't important. He has missed like 33 of 36 votes. I wish I had a job that I didn't have to bother to show up at and still got paid. Unfortunately President Bush did not perform well last Tuesday and lost the debate to John Kerry. Do you want style or substance. True the president sucks at public speaking, but who is going to better protect americans from the threat of terrorism? I don't think the USA needs to pass any "global test" to protect it's citizens. We don't need any other countries permission. This is an important election. the next two debates I feel are important. Ask yourself who the terrorists would rather have as president and vote the other way.

[Randy Pogue]

Passing the global test is imperative to the longevity of our country, as well as being important in your state, your town, and your neighborhood. You can't have society AND anarchy, with people going out and doing whatever they want, with no regard to others' property, interests, or safety. What is wrong with the freakin' people in this country? This isn't the wild west, and society will NEVER survive under those principles. YES, we have a right to defend ourselves, But we also have a RESPONSIBILITY TO PROPERLY IDENTIFY THE ATTACKER.

[Jason (fight geek)]

POLITICS, here we go... haha
Whoever is President is going to crush the Terrorists. Do you think the CIA or the FBI is going to quit working if Kerry is elected? Do you think the Army is going to quit fighting? I think terrorism is a vital topic, but I don't think Bush is going to to protect us any better than Kerry would. That is the tv ads and fear mongering Right Wing talking. Before anyone starts...yes I remember 9-11. And I remember WHOM was the guy who started it. I can't remember his name because the President NEVER talks about him.
Personaly I don't care about the debates in their present form. If people change their minds because of a debate I fear for the country. I would much rather have people with views like Mr. Pogue, Mr. Lessei, Mr. Smith etc., deciding who wins the election. Although it appears Mr. Pogue and I are the only correct ones. :)
The most important thing in this country is the middle class, if you can't see the middle class is getting shafted and the wealth is trickling UP, you must be rich.
That being said Mr. Lessei, I am excited to come down and either go to your camp or watch the fights in November. I have to decide which. I only can probably get away for one weekend.
jason
fight geek

[DEAN LESSEI]

Looking forward to meeting you Jason. I tell people I don't care who you vote for, what I do care is that you do vote. The more people that vote in this country the better we can be a government for the people and by the people. I hope this election brings out record numbers of voters.

[Craig Smith]

[QUOTE=Randy Pogue]Passing the global test is imperative to the longevity of our country, as well as being important in your state, your town, and your neighborhood. You can't have society AND anarchy, with people going out and doing whatever they want, with no regard to others' property, interests, or safety. What is wrong with the freakin' people in this country? This isn't the wild west, and society will NEVER survive under those principles. YES, we have a right to defend ourselves, But we also have a RESPONSIBILITY TO PROPERLY IDENTIFY THE ATTACKER.[/QUOTE]


Randy, I figured you would get on here. Anyhow, I agree with the Identity of the Attackers, but we all agreed back before we went into iraq, we were doing the right thing with the info we had then. Atleast the Majority of us including Mr. Kerry and Mr. Edwards. Some people including Pres. Bush continue to stick to there guns, unlike others who decide to jump off the bandwagon when the going gets tuff, I do not know about you, Well maybe I do, but anyhow I am one of those ones when the going gets tuff the tuff get going types. I believe deep down you are one of those types as well.

[Craig Smith]

[QUOTE=Jason (fight geek)]I do think Cheney had the edge, not a KO, but he pulled out a close decision... but since this is a Presdential race, the more important question is Mr. Smth, where were you after the Presidential debate? That was a KO or a UD for Kerry.
Then again for the Republicans yesterday we did see their President.
It was nice seeing two intelligent articulate people debate.
If people are really interested in good debates read the Abe Lincoln and Stephen Douglass debates. Those guys were smart.
I want one of the candidates, (either) to just say..."this guy is dumb". I want to see some more trash talk, to see how the other responds.
jason[/QUOTE]

Jason I did see the Presidential Debate and yes I thought Kerry won on style, not substance. The President is a guy we all know, we know how he thinks and acts. Do you know how Kerry Thinks and acts because if you do Nobody else does. Just because you do not Like President Bush, is that a reason to vote for another man you do not even know. You have had (4) years of President Bush and (4) other years of his father, atleast we know what he stands for.

[Craig Smith]

I would like to ask Randy and Jason one simple question. Just because you do not like President Bush's Style, does this mean you go out and vote for just anybody other than him? Atleast we know George W. and we have known his family for over 10 years. We know what he stands for and how he reacts.We know how he stands up for this GREAT COUNTRY, something Clinton did not do or Carter. Tell me something, what do you know about Kerry, other than what he has told you. Which changes every week, even his voting policies show that. How about the last 20 years in congress, name (1) I mean (1) thing he has done or taken on and accomplished. Please answer the question and do not pull a Kerry on me and say something negative about President Bush, atleast we have a proven track record that stays the course. answer please! Randy or Jason or anyone else who feels up to the task, its going to be tuff.

[Jason (fight geek)]

Craig,
You make some good points. I want to clarify it has nothing to do with the President's style in terms of my voting for him. He lost the debate because of style, he didn't lose my vote because of his speaking style.
I want to say the Republicans have done a great job in this election. Even you go right to the flip flop point. The ads do work I guess. Kerry has backed bills in the Senate that Republicans have introduced. It is a barter system there.
To answer your question about Kerry There have been bills on Foreign Operations, and bills on Veterans affairs presented by R that he has backed. He and McCain have passed bills on Veterans and Agent Orange, and POW issues he has backed. Kerry has also voted against Drug Companies who wanted tax breaks even though they raise prices about inflations rates.
How about the President's saying the war on terror probably can't be won. Then the next day he says it can. I believed him the first day. Is this a flip flop? It could have been taken out of context...right? Just like the ads on TV about Kerry, maybe you should look at the context before you make a complete judgement.
I am not going to attack Bush (too much) I don't think Bush is a bad guy. His politics are for the rich, ask the steel workers in PA about Bush's lifting of tariffs on foreign steel.
My question to you is what is this proven track record? And are you saying everyone else doesn't have one? You can look yourself at Kerry's record on what things he has and has not voted for. Also make sure to look at how Bills are formed, how long they are, and how things are slipped in by both parties to get stuff done.
I don't think knowing his family for 10 years has anything to do with his ability to run this country. Read about his other Brother or think about your own (and mine) crazy uncle or cousin. This is not a good argument as to a leader.
My last point and your only point that really irks me (well a little bit) is your reference to this GREAT COUNTRY. You say it (as most of my right wing friends do ) as if someone who is not a Republican doesn't think we live in a GREAT COUNTRY, or that a Democratic President wouldn't think this is a great country and wouldn't defend it and stand up for it.
I know we live in a Great Country. We both are not going to be killed for writing this stuff.
This would be much better over a beer.
I am writing fast so sorry if this is disjointed.
Jason

[Randy Pogue]

Yes, Craig, unfortunately the lesser of the evils is acceptable right now. Yes, we all know what W. is about, and that is why he has to go. I don't dislike his style, that's the only thing I like. He's personable, and comes across as "resolute." He gives you the false impression that he's a warrior, not a draft dodger. Unfortunately, I don't believe he stands up for THIS GREAT COUNTRY one little bit. On the contrary, he uses fear of the unknown to allow him to pursue his personal agenda. Boys and girls are dying from this, and it is not being done in the name of safety, it is done in the name of money. Listen:
There never was a connection between Hussein and 911
No one suggested this but George Bush.
The evidence on Iraq and WMD's was sketchy at best, which is why we have little international support.
Yes, Kerry supported the president. But support was based on evidence given. Evidence that was SPUN to support war.

That's all I need to know. No, I'm not worried about Kerry being soft on war. First of all, I agree with Geek, nobody is going to be soft on war. Are you suggesting that Kerry will be the worst president in the history of the USA? I mean, really, the idea that anyone, Republican or Democrat, would choose to ignore terrorism, is silly. 2nd of all, if I was worried about a softy, I'd worry about a draft dodger, not a man who served his country well in spite of his personal beliefs.
You asked me not to "pull a Kerry" and be negative about Bush. How can I? Bush's whole agenda from the get-go was poking holes in Kerry's military service, and junk like that. And the fact is, all Kerry has to do, in my opinion, is be intelligent, not be afraid to flip-flop when things change and new info is presented, and act as if the USA is his concern, and not his friends and their monetary interests. As long as Kerry doesn't act like his domestic and foreign policy decisions will focus on support of the ketchup industry, he has my vote.

I don't consider myself a Democrat at all. Some who think I am just aren't listening. I believe party-line politics is antiquated. I had no opinion in 2000, and I didn't vote. But I KNOW that W. does not have the interests of the nation, or it's people, at the top of his priority list, and he needs to go.
Peace.
RP

[SmackMaster]

all kerry is is a monday morning quarterback! its easy for him to say 'this needs to be fixed or that needs to be fixed' but what he CAN'T ANSWER STILL is HOW he plans to fix anything! kerry has shown me nothing other than he's a great critic who has watched from the stands and never offered any help while the game was going on, but now wants us to believe he has answers, well, WHAT ARE THEY?

he expects so much from GB but he expects nothing of himself. his whole plan is based around blaming GB for all the mistakes, or what Kerry believes to be mistakes, and nothing else. so if kerry is elected, where will we be? a country without LEADERSHIP because our leader is now looking for someone new to blame! i was a kerry supporter, for about 2 minutes, UNTIL HE STARTED BLAMING GB for something and again, had no solution!

kerry's stance as 'for' partial birth abortions makes me hate him even more! who would allow a baby to be born, and then KILL IT! i guess it would give kerry a chance to change his mind at the last second, "let it live, no wait, lets see what it looks like, of god, kill it, no wait, maybe we can sell it, no wait......

Kerry has had a chance to see what happened after the big decisions were made like iraq. GB did not! i stand for a leader who in the face of big decisions, MAKES ONE! and i am proud we went to iraq, and understand the issues involved with what is going on now. it all looks like gb's fault, but is it? of course not! he's just the best figure to point a finger at. again i say, if kerry is elected, who will he blame then! :eek:

[Jason (fight geek)]

Smackmaster,
This is too good to pass up on a Friday of a Debate.
First you must have an extra chromosome or two.
Next, I won't talk about abortion..i do have my limits.
But,
I will say this is the administration that won't allow condom education because they are such a backward right wing group. Geez maybe sometimes people have sex and this might help prevent the spread of aids, and maybe prevent unwanted pregnancies in our own youth and those around the world...but we can't teach them about all forms of contraception can we. Please answer this Smackmaster.
.
Next, How can you say that he understood the issues involved when, 1) there were no weapons of mass destruction which he said there were and 2) more importantly in my opinion he didn't think to have a better plan to control things after he got there. Man I would put an extra 100,000 troops right now. I mean if you go dirty someones house you better clean it. Did anyone on earth think we were not going to trash their army in weeks?
Lastly what about stem cell research? It is not cloning if you really read about it and it might prove to be quite valuable. Many Republicans agree with this.
If Kerry is elected I know who you are going to blame.
I don't blame Bush for everything, but the above points are enough to make me think he is so far away from the thinking of the common person that I can't in good conscious as an educated human vote for him.
back to the kickboxing
Jason

[SmackMaster]

jason, this can get fun, but no harm intended to you, so lets 'get it on' :)
i cant seem to find any extra chromosome or two so i will just plug along. :confused:

as for condom education, ok, got me there. :eek: dammmm.

as for gb understanding the issues involved? you misread my point, i was making a note to everyone that there were a lot of issues involved. remember, i said, "and understand the issues involved with what is going on now." not, GB KNEW the issues involved. i was referring to all the related issues NOW, AFTER the first phase. There are many, its easy to say, lets just pull our forces out now, ya right, and what will happen? Iraq is back to square one, but with a new saddam in power, doing the same evil things.

ok, an EASY point to argue was the findings of no weapons of mass destruction. to me, terrorist are weapons of mass destruction. maybe they didnt find any, but remember, there are still a lot of places we haven't even looked. no one 'really' knows if there are no wmd there for sure, buit everyone knows saddam was 'planning' to use them. so where did he hide them? who knows. this not finding them only gives people a reason not to like bush. he wasnt the one giving himself the info. he wasnt the one looking for them, hes just our leader, and leaders get bad info from time to time. bush was not the only one saying lets go get saddam. many others were, even kerry. but kerry was too much of a pussy to take the blame for what is happening now. if all would have went well, kerry would have been bragging about how he was for it. ya right, typical kerry, sway the way the wind blows for him, but lord don't commit to anything.

can any of us say bush himself didn't think to have a better plan to control things after he got there? of course not so dont be so mindless. NO ONE knows what the aftermath of war will be. but kerry wants us all to believe he did! hell, he had no clue, what is his plan now? HE HAS NONE! which is why I think kerry is more of a lose cannon!

its easy for you or i to say. lets send 100,000 troops right now because you and i would not be one of them and we think we can just pull these troops out of our ass. well, its not so easy.

i especially liked where you typed, " I mean if you go dirty someones house you better clean it." dammmm man, dont you know that the usa is the only country that HELPS rebuild countries we defeated in war? NO OTHER COUNTRY CAN SAY THIS! BUT WE CAN! so of course we will take an active roll in the after war work.
and as for stem cell research, listen closer, even kerry has wish-washed on this issue.
If Kerry is elected YES, I DO know who I am going to blame, JUST LIKE ALL OF YOU ARE NOW BLAMING GB! wouldn't that be fair? to you it is. we will all disagree on issues, the issues we like, the issues we don't like and in the end, we only care about the issues that matter to us. i am for gb and what decisions he has made. has he been perfect? of course not, EVERY president has made mistakes. and for the record, i have to laugh when you say something like "the above points are enough to make me think he is so far away from the thinking of the common person that I can't in good conscious as an educated human vote for him." hell, thats the same exact reason i won't vote for kerry! :eek:
back to the kickboxing

[Jason (fight geek)]

YEAH, But who would win in a kickboxing match.
Kerry in 2, his long legs would be the deciding factor.

I know someone who let's say knows someone who works the President and said he was super cool, not a personality thing, just a politics thing.

Ventura in 2008.

[Pete P]

Hey guys, Hope you don't mind if I jump in here on one point...Everyone is blaming GB for the Iraq war now since there were no WMD found. WHY? Does that mean there really aren't any? We have not found Bin Laden yet, so does he even really exist? Hey, maybe he is a hollogram..lol. Point is, look how long Bin Laden has managed to "hide" from us. look how long Hussein managed to "hide" from us before being caught. I really seriously doubt that the committee searching for the WMD's turned over every single rock in that wasteland, or ransacked every single building in every single town in that wasteland. It is perfectly justified to say "No WMD were found in Iraq", but in my opinion, saying "Iraq had no WMD" is a little naive. NO ONE KNOWS BUT SADDAM HIMSELF, AND HIS IMMEDIATE FOLLOWERS.

I don't agree with the war shifting from Bin Laden to Hussein either, but the fact is, Hussein was not good man, and the world is better off without him and his ways. I just hope our next Pres. whichever one he is, will get back down to business and GO GET BIN LADEN AND AL QAIDA!!