Raymond Daniels makes Kickboxing debut October 13th

[Brian Schwartz]

Just wanted everyone to know that Sport Karate World Champion Raymond Daniels is making his pro kickboxing debut Friday October 13th at the Strikeforce Fighting Championship. He is training with me in preparation for this fight and looks great. With a little time, we may have found the Wonderboy some competition. For tickets and information call 650-218-8683

[Cellar Fight Team]

Does anybody know who Raymond Daniels is scheduled to fight?

[StevieD]

Brian,
With all due respect, let me be the first to say that I admire anyone who shoots for the stars because chances are they'll at least achieve the moon. But that's just what the Wonderboy is...a star. Understandably, I've never seen Daniels fight. He may be very good, especially training with someone of your caliber. But I have seen Stephen Thompson fight MANY times and he devastates his opponents, many times without getting touched himself. He's one of the most gifted kick boxers on the planet so...good luck.
StevieD

[Jenna Droluk]

I've seen Raymond Daniels fight in WCL, and while I'm not picking him to win, I would still like to see this fight. I think it would be VERY entertaining. Speaking of fights, when are the WCL guys gonna fight in regular kickboxing fights? Or can they not do it during the "season" of WCL?

[StevieD]

Jenna,
Did Daniel's compete when we were in Hungary?

[Brian Schwartz]

Well, I must say that I think its nice that Stephen has such loyal supporters. I do think that Raymond has some time before he will have the experience to compete with Thompson, but I've got to say that he has the mose natural ability I've see in a while. I had him sparring with someone who is fighting for the 186lb title and it wasn't even competitve. We don't know who is opponent will be on the 13th, but I think the kickboxing world is going to hear some big things from this kid.

[Jenna Droluk]

[QUOTE=StevieD]Jenna,
Did Daniel's compete when we were in Hungary?[/QUOTE]

Not that I know of. I saw him fight in WCL in Vegas when Randy fought. He is sharp and fun to watch and obviously talented. And, he and I both like to kick Copeland in the head :p

When Randy and I saw him fighting, we both said he should be Stephen's opponent.

[StevieD]

I think that's Ronnie's way of damaging your foot. As the fight progresses he'll work on breaking your hands too! :D

This Raymond Daniels guy is beginning to sound interesting. I'm sure Stephen would welcome the challenge.

[Randy Pogue]

I heard a rumor that Mr. Thompson insisted Daniels be put on a west coast WCL team because he didn't want Stephen to have to fight him.

They won't be able to duck him forever.

IYDSN,TWBN!

[Ray Thompson]

Now THAT'S the way to get some STUFF started!!! Ok Pogue-ster, You know me!!! Do we look like a bad paint job? Run away??? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!!!!! We wish Daniels good luck on his FIRST kickboxing match. We want him to be undefeated when we meet him, for the "MEETING" is enevitable.

[Bad Boy]

Raymond is here looking good, we are here in Texas and he's sharp, and wait till you see the interview, he put Wonderboy in his Vocabulary, refering him to the "wonderbread boy" Wonderbread??? I doubt that. But the show will begin in about 8 hours. looks to be fire. Hi to everyone there in the internet land. more updates later after the show if you guys would like to know.

Bad Boy

[Jon Lewis]

This kind of stuff is great for the sport but, I think Mr. Daniels might be barking up the wrong tree. He's a true talent and a great point fighter, and I wish him the best in his pro debut but, I find it a little premature for him to trash talk arguably the best fighter in the world without the credentials to merit such a bold statement.

[Michael Dean]

[QUOTE=Ray Thompson]Now THAT'S the way to get some STUFF started!!! Ok Pogue-ster, You know me!!! Do we look like a bad paint job? Run away??? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!!!!! We wish Daniels good luck on his FIRST kickboxing match. We want him to be undefeated when we meet him, for the "MEETING" is enevitable.[/QUOTE]

Ray, that should be way down the road! Raymond Daniels will fair much better in the WCL against Stephen than I believe he will at this time in a Kickboxing match in a ring! He will soon see the difference between the two. To compare Daniel's ring experience with Stephen's is a joke! I am for a Wonderboy vs. Mike Nevitt fight and believe that it should be done very soon. I have an ideal, why not a Wonderboy/ Nevitt World Tilte fight in
Chicago, and Daniels can fight someone on an under card! Hey, it was just a thought. Hope all is well!

Sincerely, Michael "The Steamroller" Dean

[Michael Dean]

[QUOTE=Bad Boy]Raymond is here looking good, we are here in Texas and he's sharp, and wait till you see the interview, he put Wonderboy in his Vocabulary, refering him to the "wonderbread boy" Wonderbread??? I doubt that. But the show will begin in about 8 hours. looks to be fire. Hi to everyone there in the internet land. more updates later after the show if you guys would like to know.

Bad Boy[/QUOTE]

Kickboxing needs this type of hype to get people interested in getting out and seeing fights. Daniels is very used of getting all the attention in the Sport Karate World. I'm sure that he had heard about all the he wants to hear about how great Stephen Thompson is from the Kickboxing Community. I would have personally prefered it if he would have built up winning record before building up any hype. Anyway, as Steve Fossum would say, "Bring it on!!!!"

Sincerely, Michael "The Steamroller" Dean

[Brian Schwartz]

The only thing that Thompson has on Raymond is experience. He's not faster. He's not as versatile of a kicker. He's not stronger. I think you are going to be surprised on how easy of a transition from sport karate to kickboxing it will be for him. I have been working with him and everything I show him, he is able to pick up quickly. I do think its a little premature to talk about a fight between them right now, but give him a few fights. Then we'll see who everyone is talking about...

[StevieD]

Brian,
I understand and appreciate the notion that Raymond Daniels could possibly match Stephen in areas such as speed, strength, and kicking prowess. However, I honestly believe that the blaring difference between a Sport Karate guy and a true kickboxer is the ability to absorb damage or "grit". Does anyone agree or disagree?
StevieD

[LMITCHUM]

Ray, Brian, and Randy: First of all, I never seen the Wonderboy run from anyone. By the way, a rumor is a rumor. History has taught us that EVERY FIGHTER who called the Wonderboy out...........well some got a chance to say," yea I fought him." Some may not even remember the fight due to looking at the STARS that others have mentioned in this post.
I agree with Steamroller, it is time to see a World Championship fight between Nevitt and Thompson. Perhaps Daniels could make his 1st Pro fight against Thompson. Thompson could use this as a warm up/tune up fight before Nevitt. No disrespect to anyone who gets into the ring and fights but DAMN.....fighters need to be careful about talking smack about the Wonderboy. However, Brian if you feel your man is ready......go get some action and call him out or have you already done that in this post?

Oh, I almost forgot; can anyone name Wonderboy's loss record? It CANNOT BE FOUND!!! Because it does NOT exist. HOW about a big ZERO!!!! This is one sport where A Zero means perfection.

Larry

[Ray Thompson]

I watched Daniels fight this weekend and Brian, you are right, he does need some thime before he gets in the ring with the Wonderbread errr boy. Now you say the WB's not faster or stronger than Daniels and you know this from what experience or is it something you assume? I also assume you must have had something to do with the WB;s training too since you seem to know so much about his kicking skills! I've heard that you were a talented fighter but I did not realize you were so talented as a trainer!!

[rmj_boxer]

Sport Karate and Full contact Kickboxing is like comparing apples to oranges. I was in Karate six years before I started Kickboxing. I was really good at sparring, and I thought it would be a simple transition to go into kickboxing. After three Kickboxing workouts my trainer thought I should start sparring, it just happened to be against Big Dan Erickson. Lets just say that it opened my eyes to what fighting is really like. My karate experience helped me, but i realized that it was almost usless against a trained professional fighter. Daniels may be a very good kickboxer, I dont know. What I do know, is that you cant really list Sport Karate experience as an advantage.

[Greg Kirkpatrick]

I've seen video of the "wonderboy" and he looks really good. He's a proven fighter with lots of fight experience.

I think it's kind of a joke that a guy who never fought kickboxing is trying to put down a proven fighter. Go win some kickboxing fights against decent competition and then you have some right to talk the smack. Otherwise it's just a joke. I"m not real sure how the wcl works, so I'm not sure how those fights play into the whole thing.

Also, when proven and experienced fighters actually do fight against unproven guys it makes the sport look really bad. I hope no one actually wants to put this thing together. There are plenty of morons who say they can beat up Roy Jones or Oscar De La Hoya but they aren't gonna be put into a ring against them unless they actually prove themselves in the ring and earn the right to fight them.

[Brian Schwartz]

I love that we got things going on this board!!! First, just because a guy started in sport karate doesn't mean he can't transition over to kickboxing. There were some great sport karate athletes to switch over to kickboxing. Bill Wallace, Joe Lewis, Alvin Prouder, Howard Jackson, Eddie Newman, Keith Vitali, Ray McCallum, Benny Urquidez and the list goes on. Second, "grit" comes from within a person, not which sport they choose to participate in. I have seen plenty of kickboxers not show heart in fights...so to say that is not very accurate. Ray, I know that you are getting fired up by these comments because they are about your son. I would be the same if someone talked about my kid. I am making comparisons as a fighter and a fan. I think it will be great for there to be some hype around a fight. I have nothing to do with Stephen's training nor do I want to. I am making an opinion based on what I have seen. You guys state your opinions all the time. I think Raymond has enough ability to compete with anyone out there including Stephen Thompson. So don't you guys get all upset because I don't jock Wonderboy. And last, as far as me as trainer??? I guess we'll see if I can teach as well as I can fight...

[StevieD]

Brian,
I too have seen many kickboxers not show heart. However, what I said was "true kickboxer", obviously as a direct reference to Stephen. Additionally, I understand that "grit" may come from within, but it must be continually tried and tested in order to compete on certain combative levels...of which Sport Karate isn't one. I think you are correct in you opinion that Daniels needs to get some (more likely a lot in my opinion) ring time in before approaching th e Wonderboy.
Agreeably, it's nice to finally have some good subject matter to debate and discuss on the message board.
StevieD

[LMITCHUM]

From a different point of view, the ringtime Daniels gets he may increase his performance and grit but as he progesses so does the "Wonderbread" as Daniels called him. If Daniels gets 4 to 5 Pro fights, he should improve but only time will tell. However the Wonderman ( still cannot call him a boy) will continue to improve his game as well. He is young man and still developing his "man power" as Ray puts it.........more power with his intense speed as time progresses. SCARY!!!!!!!!!And a ROOKIE wants to call him out. That is like me calling out Stevie D or Zack Day......Hell, I am still learning how to hold the striking mitts. Trust me I know my limits and when to be quiet. Got to give it to you Brian and Mr. Daniels, if you wanted some attention you sure have gotten it!
Brian who do you think Daniels should fight in his Pro Debut? And when will it happen?
In closing, props to you for believing in your fighter and for getting some hype started. I have not had this much fun on the board since the Pre-Bartinelli and Day fight.......

Big of the sport,
Larry

[Brian Schwartz]

You guys are right...with the only exception that Raymond is a world class sport karate fighter. Thats a big difference from just learning how to hold mitts or sparring at your karate school. I transitioned over from sport karate and did ok in kickboxing. There were a few things that I had to learn that were a little different. Settling down on my punches and not throwing everything as fast and as hard as I could because of the multiple rounds was a big one. I thought there were things that sport karate helped me. Like the accuracy of my techniques, the variety and the speed. In the end, I believe fighting is fighting. Good fighters can fight and make adjustments to any style. We all remember Bruce Lee in the Coliseum. :) Seriously, I agree with all of you that he needs a little time. I am by no means calling Stephen out to fight my boy right now. All I'm saying, is that I think Raymond has the physical gifts to give Wonderboy a run. At the end of the day, i think it will be a hell of a fight that kickboxing fans will be talking about for a long time.

[Ray Thompson]

Brian, Do you really think this is the first time I've heard this kind of stuff? Come on man. It'll take more than this to get me "fired up". I'm just having a little fun.

[Brian Schwartz]

Good. I'm sure its not the first time and definitely not the last. I will look forward to competing against each other some day.

[Selbee]

well well this is a hot and interesting topic for once. I was at the WCL in Austin event as well and the Daniels kid ain't no joke. Fast boys very fast. It would be a such a great match that I am telling you right now I would fly anywhere to see it Daniels faught a tradiitionl Thai guy who was a very solid fighter but he couldnt compete with the speed and the angles Daniels threw at him. No question Daniels kept changing the distance, some thought "passivity" I though he was just doing what he did best.

Selbee

[hughdaddy62]

Ray is in the west confrence because he is from Cali, and Steve is in the east confrence because he is from the Carolinas. There is no doubt that Raymond is more experienced in point and Steve in full. Ray's has been very effective against the full contact fighters and I think there is some similarity in their styles. The WCL is a much different format than a six round pace type bout, it is three minutes of non-stop fighting which Raymond is accustom too through his continuous fighting experiences. I have seen Steve fight six times
and I was very impressed.I have been around kickboxing and sport karate for thirty years and Raymond Daniels is the most impressive, talented, all around fighter that I've seen. When these guys do meet, it should be one hell of a fight!

[LMITCHUM]

Hughdaddy and Selbee: I respect both of your post........but Hughdaddy the statement "most talented" you have ever seen in the sport. That is some statement. For the record, will somebody go ahead and sign them to fight. Lets quit talking and let them go at it. I agree, you cannot say Daniels is slack or does have not talent but for some to believe he is ready for the "wonderbread". Can not see it. I will donate 200.00 dollars to Daniels or Brians favorite charity if Daniels beats Wonderbread by May of 2007. FC rules. In return, I would like a check cut to the non profit agency for which I work if he loses. As a fan of the sport........quit talking and cowboy up.

Larry

[fighterzack]

As much fun as it is to watch and participate in this, I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves here. All that Brian originally said was, "with a little time, we may have found the Wonderboy some competition." He had his first full contact event, the WCL, a few days ago- and that is not a matched, sanctioned fight, it is the WCL. Schwartz, and Daniels, are supposed to be sure of themselves. That is a given for any top athlete, but especially for fighters. I say, keep the chatter up, but don't truly expect Daniels to go after Wonderboy, not yet. Stephen did not go pro looking for Nevitt, or Don Wilson, he has worked his way up, as you are supposed to. But if they decide to fight, or the WCL matches them up- let's get it on, and start the trash talking. And just to throw in my two cents worth, I have been in the ring with several World Champions- Schwartz, Bartinelli, Pogue, Stevie DeMent. Stephen Thompson is the best fighter I have been in the ring with, as far as having all the tools, and the most unbelievable movement. This is my opinion, but I would honestly pick him against anyone, at this time.

[Brian Schwartz]

I agree with you Zack (except for Stephen being the best you've been in the ring with :) ). All kidding aside, it will take a little time, before Raymond is ready. Ability can only get you so far. Experience counts for a lot. Stephen has almost 40 kickboxing bouts. Even after a few fights, I doubt a Athletic Commission would even sanction the fight...it will take some time. Besides that, hopefully when the time comes, there will be so much anticipation for the fight, we can get these guys a decent pay day. So Larry, save your money for now...we'll take it from you when the times right.

[bigjack]

what is it with these guys arrogance. an athelete is an athelete. The point fighters have done quite well and Raymond hasn't even been tested by the great and almighty kickboxers. point, hit with open hand many times and top and bottom of the foot. Close the hand and hit with ball and heel and you have a different game. Biggest difference is conditioning Ray has had two WCL matches and this is his first with Brian and people see that Ray is right there with Steve and all his experience. There are some Jeff Smith, Joe Corley, (didn't they as originally tournament fighters do quite well in kickboxing Hmm) who think Raymond is quite talented but I guess they really don't know anything about kickboxing. One might argue that Steve Thompson's dominance is that he doesn't fight like a traditional kickboxer.....neither does Raymond.

[Cali kickboxer]

What's up Brian

It's been a long time since I have read the message board and of course the first post I see is you on here starting trouble. I had to say to myself that this is not the Brian I know. :) Anyways glad to see you on here. Hope your fighter Raymond turns out to be as good as his potential sounds. Also pm me the info for the gym and phone # I lost my last two cell phones and lost all my phone #'s. Tell Eddy I will be down there real soon and we can see how good Raymond really is. Just kidding, I really don't need another long lay off because of a beating. Eddy knows how well I stay in shape :) when I'm not training so I should be ready to spar soon, yeah right.

Floyd

[Jason (fight geek)]

Brian,

The more important question is:

Who has a better side kick, you or Daniels? :D

[Gorkat]

Brian has a devastating side kick. One of the best I've ever seen. He KO'd Shannon Ritch with it a couple of years ago. Ritch did not get up for quite a while.

[Brian Schwartz]

Geek-

I don't know if its stronger, but he has more variety of kicks than i did. I have never seen a guy able to transition from offensive to defensive kicks so smoothly on both legs. He handled a top rated kickboxer getting ready for a world title bout easily over six rounds. It is fun to spar with him and be able to work with someone so talented (especially since I still have the fighting itch). :)

[Jason (fight geek)]

Brian,

So does that imply you might un/retire?

[Brian Schwartz]

Geek,

I don't think so. I want to...but i also said I don't want to be one of those guys that retires and unretires a million times. I want to focus on my family, training fighters and our new gym. I will let all these guys get beat up for a living... :)

[jean-luc]

Just found the following on the site http://www.sherdog.net/forums :

" Raymond Daniels dominated Travis Johnson en route to a 1st round knockout. He landed a shogun-style spinning-flying roundhouse kick to the head early in the round. "

[Greg Kirkpatrick]

If that is true then it is an impressive win. Travis Johnson is a good fighter.

[dan stell (bam)]

ok let's get the story straight on who raymond daniels fought on strikeforce. he fought a mma fighter (bryson kamaka) from hawaii. he guy was just overwhelmed with kicks. he caught one in the face :eek: .i stopped it in 1:23seconds in the first round.
travis johnson fought kadir kadri for the iska world full contact light cruiserweight title :rolleyes:. there was a no kick requirement :mad: why??? i don't know. but kadir tko'ed travis in 1:50 seconds of the 6th round.
bam ;)

[P.J. Reilly]

Glad to hear that cleared up Bam. Anyway to see a video of this event?

[jean-luc]

Thanks Bam. I sent a post to Sherdog.

[Brian Schwartz]

Raymond did look impressive in his debut. He still needs to settle down, but his kicks were awesome. He threw an array of kicks...side kicks, ax kicks, jump turn back kicks and yes, a jump spinning round kick to the head. He knocked Kamaka out with a back leg round kick to the head. He definitely stole the show that night...