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  #1  
Old 04-28-2005, 08:46 AM
Jason (fight geek) Jason (fight geek) is offline
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Default DAY BARTINELLI REVERSAL

Where to start?
Lame would be a good start.

The question asked in the news was "what would be the right thing to do?"
Easy answer: Rematch. In boxing you hear about controversial decisions, and then the hype of a rematch.

I have seen the fight on tape and I don't think it is that obvious that Bartinelli won as the "independant reviewers". I have spoken with people at the fight and I have heard people both say it was close and that some thought Day won and some thought Bartinelli won.

I know one of the judges...Peyton...Kickboxer, maybe you have heard of him. I would say he is somewhat knowledgeable in the art of kickboxing and not an idiot when it comes to judging a fight. As far as bias, if anything both fighters are fighters he may have to face in the future. He judged it how he saw it. As did the other judges.

I think personally Bartinelli is a more slick fighter. But Day I feel won that fight. He made Bartinelli miss a lot of shots with his unorthodox style and movement. When watching the fight i noticed another thing, when the camera shot pulled back, there happened to be at times good hits by Day that were diminshed in effectiveness due to it being a wide angle. So for those reviewers, it is a different deal watching it on tv from one angle, rather than three sides of a ring.
I of course have bias in that I know and like Zach Day., however I am not discounting that Bartinelli is a stand up guy, who I could hang with and have a beer.
I think that if anything, how about a no-contest. I just can't imagine Bartinelli wants a win on his record like this. Maybe. Too late now...or is it...maybe we will find out in 6 months. This brings up an important point. There should be a time frame of formal request for review, and announcement of ruling.
This just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Is anyone satisfied with this? Maybe I am the only one dissatisfied?
Thanks for reading my two cents!
Geek
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  #2  
Old 04-28-2005, 09:16 AM
Pete P Pete P is offline
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Default Re: DAY BARTINELLI REVERSAL

Jason,

Yea, i am not sure what to think either. I was not there to see the fight, but everyone I have heard "two cents" from have said it was a close fight. Well, when there is a close fight, the judges may see it slightly different from one another, and from a differrent angle of course. The replay from a video will show "one" angle, which in essence, no matter how many reviewers watch it, they all get the same view, thus it's like only one judge seeing the fight. Does that make sense? I do think turning off the audio is a good idea, but I am kind of like Dean Lessei in that I don't agree with protesting a fight because of a close decision and I thought it should have went the other way. But, then I have not heard the real reason why it was asked to be reviewed either. If something really was not right with the scoring or a couple calls by a ref that could affect the outcome, then yea, protest it. But if it is a close fight, then follow the rules of thumb: "don't leave it in the judges hands".

I am not complaining about the reversal or even the fact that it was reviewed, I am just saying that I am not sure I understand the reasoning behind it all. If close fights can be reviewed as a result of a protest by one camp (normally the losing camp), then why have judges on hand?? Why not send in every fight to have a panel of reviewing judges score the fight and decide the winner by mail, a couple months after the fact. I know I am being sarcastic, but you get my point, right?

Yea, I agree with, and like the Doucet fight that was reviewed and deemed a "no contest", I would say if something absolutely has to be done about it, then follow the same plan and deem this on a no contest and set up the rematch. I would be glad to host it. I doubt also that Bartinelli would want to win this way.
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  #3  
Old 04-28-2005, 02:47 PM
LMITCHUM LMITCHUM is offline
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Default Re: DAY BARTINELLI REVERSAL

It is almost MAY.........and almost 6 months later. I am really upset about this one. ARE there politics behide this?????????? I HOPE NOT!!!!!

I STRONGLY AGREE THAT THE MATCH WAS WON BY DAY. I SAT AT RINGSIDE AND DESPITE ME BEING A DAY FAN ; HE WON. IT WAS CLOSE BUT HE WON. I BELIEVE THAT THIS MATCH SHOULD BE PUT AS A DRAW SINCE THE REVERSAL TOOK SO LONG . WHY NOW??????

MR THOMPSON LET THEM FIGHT AGAIN IN NOVEMBER AND I WILL PAY FOR MR. BARTINELLI'S PLANE TICKET.

ZACH, I HATE THIS FOR YOU AND YOU DO NOT DESERVE THIS BUT YOU ARE A CLASS ACT AND I KNOW YOU WILL USE THIS TO MOTIVATE YOUR TRAINING EVEN TO A HIGHER LEVEL.

I BETTER STOP HERE BEFORE I SAY SOME THINGS THAT I WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE FOR AT A LATER DATE.
LARRY
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  #4  
Old 04-28-2005, 08:42 PM
Greg Kirkpatrick Greg Kirkpatrick is offline
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Default Re: DAY BARTINELLI REVERSAL

I don't think a decision should be overturned unless there is gross incompetence or a belief that there is dishonesty/cheating involved. There are plenty of close fights and the judging is going to go one way or another and that's just the fight game. If you are the guy in the close fight you gotta live with the decision.

I did see this fight on tape and it was a close fight. I don't see any reason to overturn what the judges ruled. This sets a bad precedent and in my opinion it is unfair to Day.
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  #5  
Old 04-28-2005, 09:11 PM
LMITCHUM LMITCHUM is offline
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Default Re: DAY BARTINELLI REVERSAL

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #6  
Old 04-29-2005, 07:06 AM
DEAN LESSEI DEAN LESSEI is offline
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Default Re: DAY BARTINELLI REVERSAL

I did not see this fight either, only going on what I read and have heard. However, isn't it a bit late to overturn these decisions. Losing a close fight sucks. When it is left to the judges to decide you always risk losing the match. I think that the IKF is wrong to overturn these decisions, and I agree it sets a bad precedent. If you lose a close fight, then get your butt in the gym and train harder and try to get a rematch. Then you can decide your fate by winning convincingly by knocking out your opponent and taking the judges out of it. What this decision does is send a message that the well qualified judges at this event were incompetant. I think that is wrong. These judges are well respected and qualified. They were at the event and their decision should stand. Remember hindsight is 20x20. This reversal is a mistake.
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  #7  
Old 04-29-2005, 08:31 AM
Tom Jensen Tom Jensen is offline
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Default Re: DAY BARTINELLI REVERSAL

As a judge & fight fan, I feel that there should be a time limit on a questionable fight.

At NAC 2001, a corner raised a question about a decision I was involved in. Mr Fossum told the corner, "Ok, you have tape of the fight in question. Give it to us & we'll review it now." They said, "The tape is in our room. We'll go get it." When they didn't return after 30 minutes, he said, "The decision stands." Obviously, it can't be done that quickly in most cases. But it needs to be done quickly.

It seems, upon review by other judges, that the decision would have been different if 1)there were different judges, 2)in a different setting, & 3)with the sound off. So, why were scores what they were on that night? Bias or incompetent judges? That the kind of thing one would have to conclude if a reversal is deemed to be warranted. If there is no such charge, the decision should stand.

Certainly, a re-match should be in order.

The IKF said they've learned a lot about how to do this thru this process. Hopefully, the bugs are being worked out & the process won't take so long next time.
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  #8  
Old 04-29-2005, 08:50 AM
DrewK DrewK is offline
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Default Re: DAY BARTINELLI REVERSAL

This is just bad policy that is going to make every close decision from here on be challenged. So now what decisions don't go on your record. Maybe we need to make all decisions "No Contests" and only KO's are Wins.

I learned the hard way in a boxing match....I dominated the the ring and the aggressiveness, but I didn't Knock him out and the judges came back with a decision for my opponent.

My coach said it plainly, I told you to knock him out, if you leave it to the judges then it's from their view and pespective....

This reversal is a bad call on the IKF's part....

On a positive note: Go Get Them Mark!!!! Selbee could be the K-1 sleeper tomorrow night!!!
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  #9  
Old 04-29-2005, 09:12 AM
Pammypanda1 Pammypanda1 is offline
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Default Re: DAY BARTINELLI REVERSAL

i think reversing a decision for any other reason then something obvious such as miscounted points or a judge not taking away a point that should have been is not professional nor does it show respect to the judges involved.

Martial arts is all about showing respect to your fellow martial artists as well as everyone you come in contact with. In the case of an extremely close match, the judges are appointed to make the call. final answer. it shouldnt be reversed 6 months later because the fighter deemed the loser that night felt they won. They should have trained harder and not let it be such a close match.
Doing things like this, IMO, will just make qualified judges lose interest in judging. why bother.
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  #10  
Old 04-29-2005, 02:58 PM
dan stell (bam) dan stell (bam) is offline
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Default Re: DAY BARTINELLI REVERSAL

i was third man in the ring that night. i have judged hundreds of professional title bouts for boxing and kickboxing bouts.

a good judge credits a fighter for what he/she does PRODUCTIVELY. such as CLEAN PUNCHES and KICKS. CLEAN effective legal punches and kicks with ACCURACY and POWER in any direction of movement.
"CLEAN and EFFECTIVE PUNCHES and KICKS that land on TARGET that INFLICT DAMAGE"
(as i noticed mr. day looked pretty puffy during the fight)

a good judge credit a fighter for ring generalship. who had more control of the ring, who was more poised, confident....
(mr. day has a lot of movement that just didn't look that effective to me)
"simply moving forward without EFFECTIVE PUNCHES AND KICKS is not enough"

A good judge credits a fighter for good EFFECTIVE COUNTER PUNCHES and KICKS while moving BACKWARDS.
(i noticed mr. bartanelli with several CLEAN COUNTER PUNCHES on the inside)
"i did have the closes view"

a good judge is impartial. he should be objective, fair, not score on a basis of race, color or creed. but the most important is do not be influenced by the location of the bout.

i as the third man in the ring, not to take anything from mr. day but i fairly could not say mr. day won that bout. remembering that fight mr. bartanelli had all the above to win the bout. this is my thoughts of the the bout i remember and again "i did have the closed view"
thank you, take care.
bam
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