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  #41  
Old 06-23-2005, 07:55 AM
DrewK DrewK is offline
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Default Re: Optional Headgear Rule

Pam,

After re-reading all of the posts this morning, I would have to disagree with your last post.

I don't believe Mr. Mitchell is being selfish in his post. He was using his conversations as an example.

I believe this thread has been handled very well..Unfortunately it just seems lately there has been a dividing line on most issues that puts you on the opposite side of James and Curtis

We did have some constructive comments and Randy and Curtis did agree on a point in this thread

Moving forward, the rule seems to be in place no matter if we agree or disagree. It is now up to us to follow it through the trial period and look for the following:

1. Does it increase Fighter Activity? (My opinion is no - a fighter is going to fight headgear or not.)
2. Do promoters only use fighters that won't wear headgear? (I believe most Moral promoters won't, but time will tell.)
3. Will the IKF keep a PUBLIC RECORD of injuries from all IKF sanctioned events from now throught the trial period so that actual data can be assessed to see if there are more injuries and cuts sustained to amateurs not using headgear that amateurs using headgear.(This would be very easy to do and the most responsible thing to do which should be supported by fighters,trainers, promoters and the IKF)

Andrew
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  #42  
Old 06-23-2005, 08:23 AM
Pammypanda1 Pammypanda1 is offline
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Default Re: Optional Headgear Rule

Drew K,

Yes, Randy and Curtis did agree, so that in itself should remind me that good things can happen.

I have to disagree though that this thread has stayed completely professional and all members have shown each other respect as some of us discussed doing after that last blow out. There are still sarcastic posts being made which aren't necessary. If they are meant as a "funny sarcastic", and not just a "irritated sarcastic", then I suggest the use of the smilies or something, to allow the reader to see it is meant in good humor. Everyone tends to read posts on here in a negative tone more often then light hearted as some intend them.

Because of that "dividing line" as you put it, and the past history between Curtis, James, and myself, I feel that even now, if I am to post anything that does not agree completely with either one of them, that I will be blasted and slammed for not agreeing or told I am "agruing" when, in fact, I have done nothing different then what those two have. Is that fair? No.

I really don't see the slight change of the head gear rule really changing anything but possibly allowing some of the more experienced fighters more opportunities to fight for IKF events because up til this point, they have opted for other sanctioning bodies simply becasue of the head gear rules. Again, it does not change anything for the amateurs with no experience nor the juniors and older fighters. It is a fighters option, not a promoters tool.
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  #43  
Old 06-23-2005, 08:28 AM
Pammypanda1 Pammypanda1 is offline
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Default Re: Optional Headgear Rule

Reading through all of the posts on this thread, I keep seeing the same concern..... falsifying records. This concerns me also, mainly because I would like to think trainers are not lying for their fighters and/or fighters are not lying to get fights or to look good. I think what the IKF needs to do is to make the IKF Promoters and Reps more accountable of their positions. I realize the line up changes the last week, even the last day, however, what if the fight line ups are submitted ahead of time and the fighters that are questionable, are researched. What about imposing a fine if a record is discovered to be falsified? (Is this already in place?). We have been on the other end of a false record. We had a fighter fight a guy that was "0-0" (in kickboxing), only to find out he had almost a dozen MMA fights....... ALL fights should count! Whether MMA, Smokers, or anything else. It is still ring time. Why shouldn't an exhibition count? I am asking, not stating.. Why don't they count? some of the exhibitions I have seen are still pretty intense.

If the fighters, trainers, and promoters are held more accountable for reporting an incorrect record, there should be consequences. If a trainer is at an event and they see someone fighting that is listed as 0-0 and they have seen them fight MMA, report it. If they are at an event where they see a newer fighter that is listed as 15-0, and they are fairly confident they haven't fought that much or have seen them lose a fight, then report it. I'm not saying everyone become "tattle tails" but Steve is only one person. If everyone truly wants to get promoters and fighter's records cleaned up so we have fairer fights, we need a "Hotline" in which to submit concerns to be investigated. If errors are found (within reason), then whoever falsified the records should be put on suspension, fined, or something. If there are no consequences, this stuff will just continue.

I think what will happen is the "shaddy" trainers and promoters will find sanctioning bodies that will accomodate their needs, and other promoters that have been staying away from the IKF for those reasons will come back. Everyone enjoys doing business with companies that are honest and thorough. The IKF will become even an even stronger name in kickboxing.

Is having a "hotline" agreeable or disagreeable with others? Do you think it would help or hinder?
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  #44  
Old 06-23-2005, 08:30 AM
Randy B Randy B is offline
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Default Re: Optional Headgear Rule

It is a fighters option, not a promoters tool.

Promoter: Do you want to fight on my card?
Fighter: Sure
Promoter: It is a 'No Head Gear' amateur card.
Fighter: Um, I only fight with head gear.
Promoter: Too bad, guess I'll find someone else.
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  #45  
Old 06-23-2005, 09:06 AM
Pammypanda1 Pammypanda1 is offline
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Default Re: Optional Headgear Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy B
It is a fighters option, not a promoters tool.

Promoter: Do you want to fight on my card?
Fighter: Sure
Promoter: It is a 'No Head Gear' amateur card.
Fighter: Um, I only fight with head gear.
Promoter: Too bad, guess I'll find someone else.

Fighter or Trainer: thats ok, cause I (my fighter) only have/has 2 fights. thanks for asking though, please keep us/me in mind if you do have fights with headgear.

Promoter #2: Do you have any fighters that can fight on my card?
Trainer: yes, I have fighters for your card, and just so you know, our team wears headgear.
Promoter #2: cool, cause I only promote shows with headgear.
Trainer: great, we better get ready for the event.
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  #46  
Old 06-23-2005, 09:51 AM
Curtis Bush Curtis Bush is offline
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Default Re: Optional Headgear Rule

Pam, what usually happens:
Both fighters get into the ring. One is wearing headgear, the other is not. Fighter A refuses to wear it. Fighter B who always wears it has a split-second to decide if he will not fight or fight without his headgear. The crowd is booing and calling him a pussy. Guess what..he takes off the headgear and fights!
PS: True story.
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  #47  
Old 06-23-2005, 11:09 AM
Pete P Pete P is offline
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Default Re: Optional Headgear Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy B
It is a fighters option, not a promoters tool.

Promoter: Do you want to fight on my card?
Fighter: Sure
Promoter: It is a 'No Head Gear' amateur card.
Fighter: Um, I only fight with head gear.
Promoter: Too bad, guess I'll find someone else.


Randy B, that is where the promoter is ass backwards. If they have any sense they should not bill a fight card as a "no headgear card", the headgear rule "should not" be the whole card. It maybe can be a select fight or two. The first option should be with headgear as normal.

The few promoters who do this should be fined if their are governing bodies within their respective states. It should still be looked at as a fighter's option.
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  #48  
Old 06-23-2005, 11:13 AM
Pete P Pete P is offline
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Default Re: Optional Headgear Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Bush
Pam, what usually happens:
Both fighters get into the ring. One is wearing headgear, the other is not. Fighter A refuses to wear it. Fighter B who always wears it has a split-second to decide if he will not fight or fight without his headgear. The crowd is booing and calling him a pussy. Guess what..he takes off the headgear and fights!
PS: True story.


Curtis, I have actually witnessed this same thing happen, too. This is a problem lying with the promoter. The headgear option, like any other protective gear issued should be resolved "before" the fight. Preferably when match making, but at the very latest...in the rules meeting. And again, the IKF rep should never let this happen either, which they should suggest imposed fines for such action. This kind of option has to be taken and used responsibly.
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  #49  
Old 06-23-2005, 11:17 AM
Randy Pogue Randy Pogue is offline
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Default Re: Optional Headgear Rule

Pete, I've gotta go with Grandpa on this one. If I was promoting, and I wanted to take advantage of the "no-headgear" option, I'd set the whole show up that way and pass on any fighter who wanted to wear headgear.

The whole purpose, from a promoter's perspective, would be to give a "pro" feel to the fights. When you consider that there are 3-round, pro K-1 fights, and also 4-5 round amateur title fights, the audience would have no idea whether they were watching pros or amateurs.

If I contacted a fighter, and they insisted on wearing headgear, I'd move on to the next guy.
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  #50  
Old 06-23-2005, 11:47 AM
M Winkeler M Winkeler is offline
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Default Re: Optional Headgear Rule

What about using heavier gloves for amateurs not using headgear? I only use 16oz gloves when sparring (in addition to headgear) because the heavier gloves help prevent cuts and provide additional padding.
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