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  #21  
Old 11-28-2005, 08:40 PM
Curtis Bush Curtis Bush is offline
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Default Re: FCR: Boots? No Boots? Optional?

Craig, congrats to Charles for his awesome axe-kick! Any way you can feed a clip to the message board?
I stand by my view of Boxkickers...yea there are some phenominal kickers out there: Stephen Thompson,Charles Baines,Tom Poey,etc...but the vast majority are half-assed Boxers who throw an ineffective kick every once in the blue moon!
PS: Kick someone in the head with a full power roundkick with no footpad and tell me it doesn't hurt like hell! Hell, it hurts with the footpad on too, just softens the blow so you can continue kicking hard!
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  #22  
Old 11-29-2005, 07:24 AM
Pammypanda1 Pammypanda1 is offline
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Default Re: FCR: Boots? No Boots? Optional?

All I can say Curtis is the training of the "boxkickers" in your neck of the woods must really suck, cause the training and quality of KICKBOXERS in the midwest is very high. I invite you to travel sometime and take in a few of the events being put on around here. There are far more high quality Kickboxers then "boxkickers". But then again, I have been watching mainly MTR and IR fights with some awesome high kicks to the head in almost all bouts. In all honestly, I don't see many FCR fights to know if your tag of "boxkicking" is true.
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  #23  
Old 11-29-2005, 08:08 AM
Curtis Bush Curtis Bush is offline
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Default Re: FCR: Boots? No Boots? Optional?

Just telling it like I see it Pam...In the era before modern Boxing, fighters fought bare-handed. Have you seen these fights. The fighters fought rounds that could last up to an hour. They barely threw any combiniations and mainly stalked each other around the ring looking to land one big bomb.Why? because it hurts to hit a bare face/head with an unprotected hand. With the introduction of the Marques of Queensbury Rules, fighters wore gloves and rounds were limited to 3 minutes with a 1 minute rest. The fighters now were able to start throwing more punches in combination without fear of hurting their hands. Also the 3 minute round gave them motivation to throw a more sustained attack with the knowledge that a 1 minute break was near. Thus the sport became more exciting. The same is true with footpads for the feet. Fighters do not throw as many kicks without footpads because of fear of damaging their feet. The footpad allows fighters to throw more kicks without the fear of hurting themselves. As in the introduction of modern boxing, the glove made the sport more exciting with fighters throwing more punches. The same for kickboxing with fighters throwing more kicks with the footpad...which in turn makes our Sport of Kickboxing more exciting to watch!
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  #24  
Old 11-29-2005, 10:16 AM
Pammypanda1 Pammypanda1 is offline
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Default Re: FCR: Boots? No Boots? Optional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Bush
The same is true with footpads for the feet. Fighters do not throw as many kicks without footpads because of fear of damaging their feet. The footpad allows fighters to throw more kicks without the fear of hurting themselves. As in the introduction of modern boxing, the glove made the sport more exciting with fighters throwing more punches. The same for kickboxing with fighters throwing more kicks with the footpad...which in turn makes our Sport of Kickboxing more exciting to watch!

Curtis,

I am not disagreeing with your post. I agree, the changes that have taken place throughout the years have increased the excitment of watching the sport of kickboxing. It makes your earlier comment, "but the vast majority are half-assed Boxers who throw an ineffective kick every once in the blue moon!", is almost contradictory though. Are you saying more kicks are thrown in FCR, just sloppier?

I have only seen a handful of FCR fights, but saying a fighter wont throw a kick to the head cause it hurts is inaccurate. It all hurts, it's "fighting" not synchronized swimming.

The majority of my exposure to "kickboxing" has been through Muay Thai. I can't say that I have really witnessed fighters not throwing high kicks to the head because they are only wearing a shin-instep guard instead of a boot. The fighters I have watched have thrown numerous leg and high kicks. To be honest, I have seen more energetic MTR matches with far more high kicks to the upper torso and head then some of the FCR matches I've seen. Some of those BARELY made their 6 kick requirement, which shouldn't be that difficult in 2 minutes! The pro MT matches have been awe inspiring! To say they don't throw leg kicks to the head either, couldn't be further from the truth, but again, maybe I have just been very lucky in the events I have gone to.

Maybe it's the quality of the gyms we've become associated with. Anyone that has seen fighters from Team Toro (Ricardo Perez), Mick Doyle's gym, Duke Roufus's gym, Team Singto (Dean Lessei), Peoria Athletic Club (Ryan Blackorby), HCX Mixed Martial Arts (Hill Clan), Minnesota Martial Arts Academy (Greg Nelson), Nikko-Ki (Bryce Franck), just to name a few, (those come to my head the quickest) cannot say these fighters are, in any way, "boxkickers" and not true kickboxers with incredible technique!

I'd be happy to send you copies of our last fights for you to see some truly, high quality fighters not afraid of kicking to the head!
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  #25  
Old 11-29-2005, 02:59 PM
havoc havoc is offline
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Default Re: FCR: Boots? No Boots? Optional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pammypanda1
Curtis,

I am not disagreeing with your post. I agree, the changes that have taken place throughout the years have increased the excitment of watching the sport of kickboxing. It makes your earlier comment, "but the vast majority are half-assed Boxers who throw an ineffective kick every once in the blue moon!", is almost contradictory though. Are you saying more kicks are thrown in FCR, just sloppier?

I have only seen a handful of FCR fights, but saying a fighter wont throw a kick to the head cause it hurts is inaccurate. It all hurts, it's "fighting" not synchronized swimming.

The majority of my exposure to "kickboxing" has been through Muay Thai. I can't say that I have really witnessed fighters not throwing high kicks to the head because they are only wearing a shin-instep guard instead of a boot. The fighters I have watched have thrown numerous leg and high kicks. To be honest, I have seen more energetic MTR matches with far more high kicks to the upper torso and head then some of the FCR matches I've seen. Some of those BARELY made their 6 kick requirement, which shouldn't be that difficult in 2 minutes! The pro MT matches have been awe inspiring! To say they don't throw leg kicks to the head either, couldn't be further from the truth, but again, maybe I have just been very lucky in the events I have gone to.

Maybe it's the quality of the gyms we've become associated with. Anyone that has seen fighters from Team Toro (Ricardo Perez), Mick Doyle's gym, Duke Roufus's gym, Team Singto (Dean Lessei), Peoria Athletic Club (Ryan Blackorby), HCX Mixed Martial Arts (Hill Clan), Minnesota Martial Arts Academy (Greg Nelson), Nikko-Ki (Bryce Franck), just to name a few, (those come to my head the quickest) cannot say these fighters are, in any way, "boxkickers" and not true kickboxers with incredible technique!

I'd be happy to send you copies of our last fights for you to see some truly, high quality fighters not afraid of kicking to the head!


pam,
you mentioned bryce franck.right there is proof of mt fighters throwing high kicks.i can vouch first hand(or first foot) that bryce throws them because i ate one of them.

being a mt fighter or an ir fighter opens you up to more painful contact.from the legs up.pain that you can sustain to your feet,and it doesn't discourage them.
i remember kultar gill and craig buchanans fight a few years back.kultar throws a leg kick as craig throws a spinning kick i believe.kultar catches craigs knee and breaks his foot.

with these rules you can hit knees,elbows,hip bones etc.

and i really don't think those thin dipped foam shoes are gonna help much.either for the kicker or the kickie.whether it's heel or instep.

comparing those shoes to boxing gloves is like comparing night and day.


kirk"havoc"robison
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  #26  
Old 11-29-2005, 09:23 PM
Curtis Bush Curtis Bush is offline
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Default Re: FCR: Boots? No Boots? Optional?

Havoc. The dipped foam boots only were designed to protect the small bones on top of the foot when you throw the roundkick. The heel, ball are still exposed. I do not believe you understand the concept of fighters protecting the vulnerable part of the foot.
PS: Catch me on "Lost" Wed on ABC as a Staff Sargeant in the Army. That is if they don't cut my "extra" part out....................
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2005, 02:22 AM
havoc havoc is offline
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Default Re: FCR: Boots? No Boots? Optional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Bush
Havoc. The dipped foam boots only were designed to protect the small bones on top of the foot when you throw the roundkick. The heel, ball are still exposed. I do not believe you understand the concept of fighters protecting the vulnerable part of the foot.
PS: Catch me on "Lost" Wed on ABC as a Staff Sargeant in the Army. That is if they don't cut my "extra" part out....................


i was addressing the heel protection in regards to the ax kick craig smith was talking about.the back of the heel would be the striking area used in an ax kick attempt.

and i stand by what i said before,i don't think the protection from the boot/shoe is significant for any part of the foot.

congratulations on your "lost"appearance.hope you don't fall victim to the editing room.

kirk"havoc"robison
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  #28  
Old 11-30-2005, 08:28 PM
Curtis Bush Curtis Bush is offline
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Default Re: FCR: Boots? No Boots? Optional?

Havoc. Axe kicks, spinning heel kicks will still make impact with part or most of the heel. The footpad always rises up a little and exposes part of the heel. The only reason for footgear is the protection of the instep. The roundkick is the most commonly used kick in Kickboxing and the most vulnerable to damage. Just my opinion. Thanks for the congrats. My emmy is in the mail!
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  #29  
Old 11-30-2005, 10:13 PM
havoc havoc is offline
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Default Re: FCR: Boots? No Boots? Optional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Bush
Havoc. Axe kicks, spinning heel kicks will still make impact with part or most of the heel. The footpad always rises up a little and exposes part of the heel. The only reason for footgear is the protection of the instep. The roundkick is the most commonly used kick in Kickboxing and the most vulnerable to damage. Just my opinion. Thanks for the congrats. My emmy is in the mail!


you're welcome.
i agree about the ax kick.i put that in because of what craig was saying about the very well placed ax kick.imo the boot would have made no difference.

kirk"havoc"robison
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  #30  
Old 12-02-2005, 05:12 AM
Craig Smith
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Default Re: FCR: Boots? No Boots? Optional?

Havoc, I agree with both you and Curtis about the Ax, but this one that was thrown came from high up and some of the foam did catch the face bone, I am sure not all, but still it was some protection. I agree with Curtis on the small bone parts of the foot, it is those bones which have some how been broken in my foot over the years. Hey if you guys out West and in the Mid-West want to go at it bare footed, then so be it. Please try not to make it a decision that we all have to live with. We do more FCR over here on the coast and my belief is to keep the boot for beginners. Advanced fighters maybe a change but not for the beginners and Jr's. thats my take, and I am sure it is 50/50 when all have spoken.
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